I'm of the opinion that, once it was unambiguously clear that smoking was both lethal (by way of suffering) and eye-wateringly profitable, we should have done everything to eliminate it. However, it's also now understood that quitting before your 30s results in an essentially-complete reversion to an average life expectancy. The cynic in me might look at that fact through Seymour's eyes and campaign for spending billions on getting teenagers to smoke (for freedom, and taxes) and billions more getting 30 year-olds to quit, (for decreased public health costs)... Of course, this would be immediately be dismissed as insane, which just demonstrates how deranged an, anti-society, financialised perspective is.
I also recall my fury at that scurrilous survey with its loaded questions
Seymour’s comments made me so sad - he was gloating about my dad. An addicted smoker from his service in WW2 on, he tried in later life but could never fully quit. He was 60 when a pulmonary thrombosis took him - no real retirement for him ( the age was 60 back then). Seymour might have thought he was making a joke but it’s horrible reality for many families…
I'm so sad to hear of your dad, Rose, especially that he didn't live to enjoy his retirement with the people he loved. And it goes to show how shallow and inadequate the 'people make choices' thing is to understand a complex human phenomenon like smoking - including the use of tobacco by people who served in the war. It's a whole other layer of debt we owe to that generation that we haven't fully grappled with, I think. I bet your dad was a special person and I wish you could have had him longer.
Great gallop through the chaos, Anna. The Poor Laws mentality fostered by that government became so entrenched that it became nigh on impossible to advocate for the poor. Breakthrough was achieved by reframing the problem as child poverty, because, you know, kids can't be blamed for being poor, can they? Their parents are still fair game though - what's so hard about a Vegemite sandwich!
Yeah. The victories of the last few decades' political agendas aren't so much about individual policies, but the change in our national psyche. You're right on about the repackaging of poverty as child poverty - we needed a notion of innocent victims in order to care. Even that limited caring is being eroded. The poor kids obviously need to choose better parents.
Whoa, well written. You packed a lot into this suitcase. Actually, I didn't take offence at David Seymour's comments, even though my father died of lung cancer aged 69 after smoking all his life (he was given cigarettes while serving in the Middle East 1939-1943) but he was also an alcoholic. He was an addict. He could not give up.
You only touched lightly on severe addiction, something very close to my family. Those who know a bit about this disease will know how bloody hard it is to actually quit smoking, especially if the addict is an alcoholic who has quite drinking. Addicts are addicts. End of story. Prisons are full of them. Taking away their cigarettes is, IMO, cruel. Yes, I agree, the 'crime' is to harm others with disgusting, foul second-hand smoke but it's not too difficult to provide special areas.
So, despite the fact I loathe smoking, I believe there will always be addicts, now and in the future, who will never give up smoking. And, looking at the evidence now coming out, I think vaping could be worse. Serious addicts who, no matter the price they have to pay (just look at meth, cocaine, etc) will somehow get their fix.
I wrote a lengthy response and then lost it - argh. Thank you for sharing your experience with your dad, which sounds very complex and very painful.
I think you're right about serious addiction, and I didn't quite go there because it needs a fuller and more sensitive discussion. But I think we need to accept that the ideas we usually use (elasticity, incentives, disincentives) make no sense in the context of addiction - yet we still treat the whole smoking population as if those ideas do hold for all.
As I was reading your words, I found myself nodding in agreement at thinking about smoking in the same way as other addictions. Maybe it's not as visibly dramatic, but that doesn't mean the addiction is any less powerful. And maybe the conversation needs to turn to how we give people dignity and maximum quality of life in whatever remains of that life, regardless of what the addiction is.
I'm of the opinion that, once it was unambiguously clear that smoking was both lethal (by way of suffering) and eye-wateringly profitable, we should have done everything to eliminate it. However, it's also now understood that quitting before your 30s results in an essentially-complete reversion to an average life expectancy. The cynic in me might look at that fact through Seymour's eyes and campaign for spending billions on getting teenagers to smoke (for freedom, and taxes) and billions more getting 30 year-olds to quit, (for decreased public health costs)... Of course, this would be immediately be dismissed as insane, which just demonstrates how deranged an, anti-society, financialised perspective is.
I've reached the point where things I would have thought too farfetched even for conspiracies are now a daily reality. It's not conducive to sanity.
Two things Anna
I also recall my fury at that scurrilous survey with its loaded questions
Seymour’s comments made me so sad - he was gloating about my dad. An addicted smoker from his service in WW2 on, he tried in later life but could never fully quit. He was 60 when a pulmonary thrombosis took him - no real retirement for him ( the age was 60 back then). Seymour might have thought he was making a joke but it’s horrible reality for many families…
I'm so sad to hear of your dad, Rose, especially that he didn't live to enjoy his retirement with the people he loved. And it goes to show how shallow and inadequate the 'people make choices' thing is to understand a complex human phenomenon like smoking - including the use of tobacco by people who served in the war. It's a whole other layer of debt we owe to that generation that we haven't fully grappled with, I think. I bet your dad was a special person and I wish you could have had him longer.
Totally Anna
That’s exactly why I included the detail about the impact of the war on that generation
Those of us who witnessed it as children are dwindling in number now too
It is complex and sitting in righteous judgment helps no one
Great gallop through the chaos, Anna. The Poor Laws mentality fostered by that government became so entrenched that it became nigh on impossible to advocate for the poor. Breakthrough was achieved by reframing the problem as child poverty, because, you know, kids can't be blamed for being poor, can they? Their parents are still fair game though - what's so hard about a Vegemite sandwich!
Yeah. The victories of the last few decades' political agendas aren't so much about individual policies, but the change in our national psyche. You're right on about the repackaging of poverty as child poverty - we needed a notion of innocent victims in order to care. Even that limited caring is being eroded. The poor kids obviously need to choose better parents.
Whoa, well written. You packed a lot into this suitcase. Actually, I didn't take offence at David Seymour's comments, even though my father died of lung cancer aged 69 after smoking all his life (he was given cigarettes while serving in the Middle East 1939-1943) but he was also an alcoholic. He was an addict. He could not give up.
You only touched lightly on severe addiction, something very close to my family. Those who know a bit about this disease will know how bloody hard it is to actually quit smoking, especially if the addict is an alcoholic who has quite drinking. Addicts are addicts. End of story. Prisons are full of them. Taking away their cigarettes is, IMO, cruel. Yes, I agree, the 'crime' is to harm others with disgusting, foul second-hand smoke but it's not too difficult to provide special areas.
So, despite the fact I loathe smoking, I believe there will always be addicts, now and in the future, who will never give up smoking. And, looking at the evidence now coming out, I think vaping could be worse. Serious addicts who, no matter the price they have to pay (just look at meth, cocaine, etc) will somehow get their fix.
I wrote a lengthy response and then lost it - argh. Thank you for sharing your experience with your dad, which sounds very complex and very painful.
I think you're right about serious addiction, and I didn't quite go there because it needs a fuller and more sensitive discussion. But I think we need to accept that the ideas we usually use (elasticity, incentives, disincentives) make no sense in the context of addiction - yet we still treat the whole smoking population as if those ideas do hold for all.
As I was reading your words, I found myself nodding in agreement at thinking about smoking in the same way as other addictions. Maybe it's not as visibly dramatic, but that doesn't mean the addiction is any less powerful. And maybe the conversation needs to turn to how we give people dignity and maximum quality of life in whatever remains of that life, regardless of what the addiction is.